Enigmatic personalities behind the initial Dulce underground base rumors

Well, all I can say is that I had the honor and the pleasure to meet (several times in 1988-89) Officer Gabe Valdez. He was then in charge of the relationship with the Jicarilla Indians Reservation. Later he returned to Albuquerque, NM, as a Patrolman of the New Mexico Police Dept., like his brother. On a less healthy side, I attended to the shameless performance of Bill Moore in Las Vegas, Nevada, in July 1989; I had had Paul Bennewitz on the phone but he was too much afraid when, at his invitation, we came to his house. He did not open his door (I was with the then MUFON State Director – to no avail). Tom Adams and Christa Tilton were very nice to me on the phone. Capt. John Grace (Air Force Intelligence, aka Val Valerian) was a telephonic mentor and advisor. A funny incident happened with John Lear. He had been very friendly on the phone, but, at the MUFON Symposium, when I was introduced to him by no less than Timothy Good, he made an about-face at me!


Dulce 31 (2)

(Archuleta Mesa in the background – – photo taken by Norio Hayakawa)

When it comes to the “Dulce base” topic, it is really not about the “base” itself ….(since, apparently and evidence-wise, it does not exist), but rather about the various personalities that have initially promoted this rumor.
Let’s examine some of the enigmatic personalities, how it all started (from around 1979 to 1983) , etc. and how, ultimately, deluded con artist Phil Schneidertook advantage of the Dulce base rumors:



Owner of Thunder Scientific Corporation (contractor to Kirtland Air Force Base), located right next to the entrance of Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM, presently operated by his sons.
From around 1979 Paul Bennewitz began to witness some strange lights hovering over Manzano underground nuclear storage area, not too far from his residence in the Four Hills area of Albuquerque.
Some researchers (such as Greg Bishop)…

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A flying saucer incident in Dulce, New Mexico in the late 1960s


According to a testimony given by former Dulce, New Mexico resident Darren Vigil Gray, it was in the late 1960s that this amazing incident took place on Hwy 64 between Dulce and Lumberton.

At that time Darren was a fourth grader on the Jicarilla Apache reservation in northern Rio Arriba County.

At around 6:30 a.m. that particular morning, he claims he saw a flying saucer on his way to a parochial school which was located in nearby Lumberton.

A “dirty metallic colored” disk about 20 feet in diameter passed about 50 feet in the air over his school bus between Dulce and Lumberton, he said.

“It created all this chaos on the bus,” Gray said. He said his brother, then a sixth-grader, yelled, “It’s a flying saucer !“,  but the priest driving the van didn’t stop to investigate the phenomenon and instead stepped on the gas.


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